Display

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 04:18:42 -0700 from hubzilla

This is a test message for Jason to reply to in Spanish which I expect not to see because of a filter. The test will be whether someone else doesn't see it as well.

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 05:33:20 -0700 from hubzilla

Hola! uno dos tres.

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 05:33:48 -0700 from hubzilla

Hey Marshall, this reply is in English. I have also replied the way you requested.

Marshall Sutherland

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 07:15:40 -0700 from hubzilla

The Spanish came through. Maybe it needs to be something larger to trigger the filter.

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 07:48:01 -0700 from hubzilla

Reply in Spanish is above this English text.

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 07:49:11 -0700 from hubzilla

De prisa entre la nieve

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 07:49:39 -0700 from hubzilla

Small reply in spanish with 5 words is above this English text.

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:02:34 -0700 from hubzilla

Riendo todo el camino

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 08:02:51 -0700 from hubzilla

Small reply in Spanish with 4 words above this English text.

Marshall Sutherland

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:09:08 -0700 from hubzilla

I see the 4 and 5 word Spanish replies, but not the one of unspecified length before those. So, we have our test case.

JoCo Cruise

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:14:42 -0700 from hubzilla

This channel which

is on the same server as Marshall,
has Jason as a connection (probably irrelevant), and
does not have connection-level filtering enabled

does not see the same message that Marshall does not see.

This seems wrong to me.

EsotericDude

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:24:54 -0700 from hubzilla

This channel which

is on the same server as Marshall,
has Jason as a connection,
has connection-level filtering enabled, and
has no filters for Jason

does not see the same message that Marshall does not see.

EsotericDude

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:38:18 -0700 from hubzilla

This is unexpected. I am now on the primary server for this channel (inktada.com) and I still can't see that reply.

Marshall Sutherland

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:42:54 -0700 from hubzilla

I thought my filter was affecting others on my server, but now the effect is apparently not limited to my server.

I'm just so confused now.

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:46:25 -0700 from hubzilla

Maybe I am the only person that sees the long Spanish text.

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:48:50 -0700 from hubzilla

Very confusing.

Marshall Sutherland

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:54:55 -0700 from hubzilla

In the testing before, you were seeing messages from other people that I was filtering, so that wouldn't fit with an idea that you can only see it because you posted it. But, still, it can't hurt to ask.

Can anyone else see the long Spanish reply that should be the 4th reply on this thread?

Marshall Sutherland

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 09:59:04 -0700 from hubzilla

To include the detail of the test I haven't explicitly mentioned yet, I put a filter on Jason to exclude "lang=es".

Back when we were trying to figure out why I was missing replies, we noticed that some other channels were also missing the replies. Now that the original problem seems to have been solved by removing all my filters, I wanted to come back and look at the side-effect it seems to be having on other channels.

Alimentazione e quello che sta intorno

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 10:50:34 -0700 from hubzilla

Wenn es hilft, dieser ist in deutscher Sprache geschrieben

Alimentazione e quello che sta intorno

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 10:51:08 -0700 from hubzilla

Se può essere di aiuto, questa frase è scritta in lingua italiana

Cyborg 2-A ✅

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 13:20:43 -0700 from libertious

isthay isyay ayay esttay ostpay . estingtay 123

Marshall Sutherland

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 14:23:15 -0700 from hubzilla

But can you see the large Spanish message Jason posted?

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 14:48:04 -0700

I'm a bit confused what is being tested, but I'll tell you how it is supposed to work.

When somebody replies to a post, in Hubzilla, the reply is sent to the person who posted the first post of the conversation. They normally forward this to the rest of the viewers of the conversation. If the conversation owner filters a message, they not only don't receive it, but they also do not forward it to other conversation members.

Jason should always be able to see his comment even if you blocked it from your conversation. So if that is what is happening it is working as designed. In our world a conversation is a container and posts inside the container belong to the container owner. They can remove things from it because it is their container.

If you throw ActivityPub into the mix it gets a bit weirder because microblog software isn't aware of conversation containers. Most ActivityPub software (by default) sends comments not just to the sender of the top-level post, but also to all of the followers of the person writing the comment. Mastodon for instance will happily try to re-assemble the thread and display your conversation on that platform with Jason's blocked post in it. There's nothing we can do about this, though it does highlight the inability of fediverse platforms to work together in even the most basic sense. Support for the concept of conversation containers is required to provide features such as private/moderated groups and circles/aspects.

What remains is the question of how you would filter a Spanish post of Jason from your view of your conversation and still forward it to other viewers of your conversation who might understand Spanish text. That as we say is "not yet implemented". It would necessitate different actions on receipt of a post that matched your filter rules; such as "hide from my view" and "remove from the conversation". At this moment, if you block a comment, you also block it from other viewers of your conversation. This isn't as bad as it sounds, because most of the time the things you block from your stream are highly unlikely to be the topic of conversations you initiate.

Marshall Sutherland

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:14:59 -0700 from hubzilla

OK, that is a relief! The concept of the replies "passing through the original post" seems familiar from conversations from years past. So, in short, we were testing for something that seemed wrong, but was actually correct.

I'll go turn off that filter now.

Jason Cook

Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:18:50 -0700 from hubzilla

Mike, thanks for the clear definition of how things propagate, it is much appreciated.